Dealing with Financial Stress and Anxiety

Show Trancript

Justin Harvey CFP

I’m your host, Justin Harvey. And here’s your co host who recently spent $6 ,000 on medical treatment, Dr. Jimmy Turner.

Jimmy Turner MD

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This is quickly turning into a show about my thyroid. But all that said, the reason I mentioned this is because this show is about financial anxiety and stress. And even though I live in the world of personal finance, and I teach people about money and write books and podcasts about money, financial stress and anxiety is a thing.

Jimmy Turner MD

And even for those of us that live in this space. And so yeah, I was a little surprised by the cost of the radiation treatment for my thyroid, which is which is where that $6 ,000 bill came from. But I guess if I think about it, they gave me a tracer to begin with, they took an uptake scan, whatever that was four hours later, and then I had to get another uptake scan the next day before they gave me the final treatment.

Jimmy Turner MD

So it was like four different visits. And it ended up costing like six grand. Now I have a health savings account, I didn’t expect this to happen. Right? So if I knew that I had like an upcoming $6 ,000 medical expense, I probably would have skipped the HSA for this year.

Jimmy Turner MD

And just gone for like a normal regular plan that would have been a very defined cost for me. But because it’s an HSA, I just like take it right in the teeth until I am not forced to anymore. And so we’re not touching our HSA money, we’re continuing to save that the entire idea behind an HSA, right is it’s pre tax money, it goes in pre tax, it’s saved pre tax, and so it just continues to grow pre tax.

Jimmy Turner MD

And as long as you spend on medical treatment, it’s pre tax. And so it’s only triple free account. But for me, that kind of puts in financial stress and anxiety into my life, because I was like, I can’t touch that money.

Jimmy Turner MD

I’ve decided that I’m going to cash roll. I’m going to bankroll anything that comes into my life from a healthcare stance, I didn’t expect a $6 ,000 bill. And so had to step into my emergency fund to avoid tapping into my HSA.

Jimmy Turner MD

And anytime I tap into my emergency fund, I’ve got to be honest, it gives me a little bit of stress and a little bit anxiety. And and that’s okay. For me, this was a recent example of that. And I think it’s a way to talk about some of the show.

Jimmy Turner MD

But just not I want to mention this, because I think this is hilarious, I’m going to make fun of every nuclear medicine physician that’s listening to the show right now. And so if that’s you email me, I’ll apologize.

Jimmy Turner MD

But it was absolutely hilarious, right? So I’m at a teaching hospital, I work at Wake Forest, North Carolina, for those of you that don’t know, I’m sitting in this room, and I’m one of those people, like I always let trainees practice on me, right?

Jimmy Turner MD

So I’ve got no problem. My psychiatrist is a resident, my endocrinologist is soon to be a fellow. And so the the attending comes in the room nuclear medicine attending. And he’s like, Hey, do you mind if I bring some, some trainees into the room?

Jimmy Turner MD

And I said, No, of course not, like, the more the merrier. And so he brings them in, he’s like, Yeah, they have to watch this procedure. And I work in the world of anesthesia around surgical procedures that take hours and hours and hours.

Jimmy Turner MD

And I do procedures myself, and I consider them short, and they might take somewhere between 30 and 45 minutes, right? Depending on what it is, sometimes it takes 15 or five, it just kind of depends.

Jimmy Turner MD

But they’re always procedures and they’re things you watch, and use your hands and all that stuff. So I ended up having like six people in this room, watching me swallow a pill. And I was like, it is fascinating to me that whoever the regulatory people are probably nuclear related, because this is radioactive iodine, but they had to come in and observe me swallowing a pill.

Jimmy Turner MD

I found that really interesting that they had to have that as part of their training.

Justin Harvey CFP

That is hilarious.

Jimmy Turner MD

Yeah. So if you were in nuclear medicine, I apologize if I just offended you, but that it just didn’t seem like a real procedure to me. I know that’s a box. You got to check in order to be able to give people are nuclear medicine, but we’re going to talk about financial stress, anxiety on the show.

Jimmy Turner MD

So if you’re someone on the show, before we jump in, that is looking for financial literacy talks for your trainees, residents, fellowship programs. Send me an email, Jimmy at moneymeetsmedicine .com.

Jimmy Turner MD

I’ve been doing more and more of this lately and really enjoyed just getting into financial literacy, teaching education in a more active role. So if that’s something that you’re interested in, you’re a program director listening to the show, I’ve had other program directors reach out.

Jimmy Turner MD

I’ve mentioned a few of the places that I’ve been recently in prior episodes. Jimmy at moneymeetsmedicine .com. You can also point your trainees to the book. That’s at moneymeetsmedicine .com. It’s free to download.

Jimmy Turner MD

So check that out and let me know what you think. Happy to chat offline more about that. So Justin, I know that I’ve got like my anecdotal personal experience of like financial stress from recent medical expenses, but you have lots of experience from the financial advisor side of seeing people go through financial stress from things that may come up.

Jimmy Turner MD

So what are some common examples that really kind of press this button for people?

Justin Harvey CFP

Yeah, I think there’s two circumstances in which I see people really to I would say like commonly occurring circumstances in which people really are under the gun with a lot hitting them at once. One is when you transition to practice, where you’ve got a bunch of student loans, you’ve been bouncing along on the PGY scale for a while, you’ve got to move across the country, do first last and security,

Justin Harvey CFP

and you know, all these other things. And you maybe didn’t get a signing bonus, you’re waiting for your first attending paycheck to hit. And that’s a time of significant financial strain. Another is if you’re trying to launch a practice.

Justin Harvey CFP

So I do a lot of work with pain doctors, pain management is one of those few specialties in which you can still practice independently. And whenever you’re firing up a new business, or investing meaningfully in an existing medical practice or surgery center or other related business, that’s the time, especially if you’re earlier in practice, it can create a lot of strain.

Justin Harvey CFP

Sometimes it’s just the indebtedness, the psychological effect of the additional loan, sometimes it’s the actual cash outflow. In either of those two circumstances, people are rightly concerned about their financial wherewithal and their ability to, you know, continue to absorb what is that?

Justin Harvey CFP

Like if that next thing, that next domino, if that hits me at the wrong time, what then am I going to do? So I think this is a really helpful conversation for, you know, especially people who have just finished training and are in the throes of like waiting for that first paycheck to hit.

Justin Harvey CFP

This is something that I see a lot. Yeah.

Jimmy Turner MD

And I think that’s a great place to start with this because it’s a common experience for people. I mentioned kind of the one -off experience that I’ve recently had that caused some financial stress or anxiety in my own life.

Jimmy Turner MD

And that’s a great example that you’re giving too that’s probably more pervasive and common for people to experience. And I remember experiencing that myself, even in medical school when I was transitioning to become an intern, I don’t know.

Jimmy Turner MD

I didn’t know anything about money. It just didn’t budget, didn’t know anything about the stuff, didn’t dawn on me that the money that I was spending each month wouldn’t actually get my first paycheck until the end of July for the work that I had done.

Jimmy Turner MD

And so I had this like six week gap, ended up having to, fortunately I’m privileged enough to have been able to borrow money from my grandmother who hilariously made me pay it back and like signed contract and everything.

Jimmy Turner MD

So yeah, it was like legit.

Justin Harvey CFP

Because my client, I would have told her to do the same thing, so.

Jimmy Turner MD

That’s hilarious because I have thoughts about it on the other side that may disagree with you. But I’m a big fan. We’ll segue on this. That’s fine. I’m a big fan, personally. If you’re going to give money to family or friends, I think there are two ways to do it.

Jimmy Turner MD

You can either be strict like, here are the black and white lines, contractual agreement, have a signature, which is the route that my grandmother chose. Personally for me, I would just rather give things away.

Jimmy Turner MD

No strings attached. So here’s your money. It’s a gift. Happy to help you. I do not expect it back. And I do not expect anything in return. And I’m just releasing you from owing me anything because at the end of the day, the relationship is more important than money.

Jimmy Turner MD

For me, that’s the tactic that I typically go. If it was some $100 ,000 sum, maybe I might feel differently. I don’t know. Do you ever counsel people that direction? Yeah.

Justin Harvey CFP

I mean, it’s obviously circumstantially dependent. If somebody was independently wealthy, if they’re asking me, hey, I’m thinking about a loan to my grandchild, how should I do it? Well, definitely with a promissory note that is clearly articulating the terms and it’s very buttoned up.

Justin Harvey CFP

But if it’s like, oh, I wanna help out little Jimmy, how should I do it? Well, given the money, you got $9 million and you’re not gonna live that much longer. I think that’s, we would explore that together.

Jimmy Turner MD

Yeah, so that was an example of financial stress in my life was bridging that that gap, you know, and I’ve definitely experienced that on other occasions as well. And it’s interesting because sometimes this is even planned, you know, I recently bought back the physician philosopher, which was the business I started in 2017.

Jimmy Turner MD

And I’m sending five figure checks to people, even though I knew it was coming, and I’d been saving for it. And I like to put just sending the check, at least until the last check, the last check was kind of freeing.

Jimmy Turner MD

It’s like, I’m done freedom, right? The first couple I was like, man, this is this is pretty painful. And that money could be going somewhere else, if I’m being honest. And so there was a little bit of stress and anxiety around that too.

Jimmy Turner MD

But I think that regardless of the situation, one of the best ways to combat this from like a practical standpoint is educating yourself. I really do think that that quote, at the beginning, worrying is like paying a debt you don’t know, like we worry, we worry about a lot of things that aren’t really necessary.

Jimmy Turner MD

And part of the reason that we don’t know they’re not necessary is because we don’t educate ourselves on it. I talked in the last episode about knowledge kind of being the antidote of fear. I do think educating yourself in the personal finance realm is is one of the ways that you can kind of combat this.

Jimmy Turner MD

And the reason why is because you start to do certain things. Once you educate yourself in personal finance, you might create a spending plan, which is what I refer to what my wife and I do. You might create a budget and help provide some parameters, some constraints, which mean you might be saving for things that are coming up, including a rainy day fund, an emergency fund, whatever you might call it.

Jimmy Turner MD

And so for us, having those multiple like opportunities that we can tap into that, God forbid, something happens, is one thing that’s really helped me with financial stress and anxiety. And so we talked about this on the show before, just having multiple ways to pull the lever so that you have access to cash, should you need it.

Jimmy Turner MD

And so in our life, for example, that that my first $10 ,000 is sitting in a regular checking account that I can tap into just completely immediately and fully and there’s there’s no delay. And then the remainder of my emergency fund is sitting in a money market fund so that it can at least keep up with inflation.

Jimmy Turner MD

And that money is that’s the one when I have to tap into that one. That’s what I’m like, I’m having some anxiety, I’m having some stress, but I know it’s there. And so until I tap into that, I don’t really have a lot of stress about it.

Jimmy Turner MD

But having the financial knowledge, okay, you need to have lots of money you can tap into when things happen. That does provide some relief from this.

Justin Harvey CFP

One of my favorite exercises when I talk to somebody who’s, and I see this in like, particularly the, like I’m gonna do a business thing, how should I plan for it cohort is to do the, you know, you describe like the God forbid something should happen.

Justin Harvey CFP

We should call this like the God forbid something should happen, cash access hierarchy. And where we say, okay, you have to come up with a million dollars of cash tomorrow or in short order. Like how are we gonna beg, borrow and steal?

Justin Harvey CFP

Obviously we’re not gonna steal in order to come up with this. And you talk about like the, I think Tim Ferriss calls this idea of fear setting. It’s where I’m sort of familiar with this where you’re like, you sit down and think about what’s the worst case and how are you gonna deal with it?

Justin Harvey CFP

And if you can come up with a plan and it seems reasonable, then you shouldn’t worry about that. It’s kind of his line of thinking, which I think is useful. This is sort of the financial equivalent of that where, okay, if I had to come up with this amount of money, how much is in your checking?

Justin Harvey CFP

How much is in your savings? Those are sort of the easy low hanging fruit. How much credit card capacity do I have? How much credit card capacity could I get? How much is in my 401k? There’s the $50 ,000 loan you can take if your balance is 100k or more, but then there’s the how much is in my retirement accounts, your Roth IRAs, your how much could I reasonably expect to access from any family members who might loan me money?

Justin Harvey CFP

And you create the list from least painful to access to most painful to access. How much is my car worth? Don’t touch the car. Don’t touch the car. Yeah, that’s right. That’s at the very bottom of your list, obviously.

Justin Harvey CFP

But what you may find in some cases is that there’s significantly more, and you mentioned, Jimmy, a $6 ,000 medical surprise causing you some angst. If you knew that the total amount of access to capital was like 185 grand or 300 grand or what line of credit on your house, there’s these pots of money or potential money that once you stack them all up and look at them, think like, what are the circumstances that would lead me to need that bottom total amount of cash?

Justin Harvey CFP

And what I find is that when we go through this, at least for clients who have a balance sheet that looks healthy, and again, when you’re early in your wealth building journey, there’s a lot less here, but when you’ve got some equity in your house and you’ve got the retirement accounts and things like, in order for you to really redline to like hit that catastrophic, this is a big actual problem in the real world point,

Justin Harvey CFP

it’s very rare. And it’s clarifying for everyone, all of the, like me and them, the client, to say like, okay, here’s the actual number. How do we feel about that number? What are the circumstances that would land us there?

Justin Harvey CFP

And nine times out of 10, we’re like, oh yeah, you’re right. We’re actually doing fine, thank you very much.

Jimmy Turner MD

And this is an example of something that we’ve talked about several times on the show recently, where when you define something and you make it objective, it provides clarity, and it gets rid of guilt and stress and fear.

Jimmy Turner MD

Alright, so we talked about in the last episode, when you realize that you’ve actually saved enough money to retire by the age that you want, you should spend the rest guilt free, there’s no scarcity or fear that comes out of that because you’re doing enough to get to your get to your goals.

Jimmy Turner MD

And this works the same way. I actually love that that idea. So so with coaching clients that you know, I call it the worst case scenario, this way that I think through things and probably the most applicable place that I see this working is when people are considering changing jobs.

Jimmy Turner MD

So first, defining the problem, why are you changing jobs, right? Because people like, Oh, it’s terrible. It’s toxic. Hate this place burnout. Okay, let’s talk about that. Like, what’s actually going on?

Jimmy Turner MD

Like my boss yelled at me. Okay, let’s have a conversation about that. Let’s let’s figure it out. What were the words that were said, like, really diving in and defining that. But let’s say you get to the point you’re like, I want to leave my job potentially.

Jimmy Turner MD

Now we’re comparing job A and job B. And so what’s the worst case scenario, if you accept either one of those jobs, right, you walk it through, you label it out. And oftentimes what will happen is people will say, like the worst case scenario, if I take that job, like, I couldn’t deal with that, like, okay, well, it sounds like you’re staying.

Jimmy Turner MD

What’s the worst case scenario if you stay like, I couldn’t deal with that. Okay, well, it sounds like you’re going. And if you get to this beautiful place of being able to tolerate both worst case scenarios, then you just get to decide, right, so that that’s kind of what you’re describing is like, once you’ve defined what the worst case scenario is, and been really clear about that and objective about it,

Jimmy Turner MD

I’ve got $185 ,000, I can tap into what’s a $6 ,000 expense. Like, oh, yeah, I guess that does really kind of relieve some of my anxiety, my fear, about these things that come up, it decreases that financial stress.

Jimmy Turner MD

And so I think that that is a good way of thinking. And some other some other ways that you might think about this, right, we’re talking to, you know, the lines of credit, or the the stock that you might have available to you.

Jimmy Turner MD

But this is another reason why insurance exists to the entire point of insurance is to transfer the risk that you’re taking to someone else, you’re paying them to take that risk. So this is one reason why you get term life insurance, right?

Jimmy Turner MD

Loss of income, you want to make sure your family’s taken care of, you don’t want to worry about that angst, that stress that, you know, pressure that comes from worrying about that. So you buy life insurance so that until you’re financially independent, your family’s taken care of even if you die.

Jimmy Turner MD

This is the reason you get disability insurance when your your human capital of earning income is your most important asset when you’re young, and you protect that so that God forbid, right, the God forbid scenario, a worst case scenario, you get injured or disabled, your lifestyle doesn’t have to change because you are able to replace your income.

Jimmy Turner MD

That’s why I argue that since on prior shows, you just mentioned like human capital being the most important thing when you’re young, if that’s your number one asset, and we talk about all things in investing and paying down debt on the show, if you don’t have an income, none of that matters.

Jimmy Turner MD

That’s why I always say disability insurance is your number one financial task as a physician. The purpose of that is to help kind of deal with that reality, but also to reduce your stress and your anxiety because hopefully you never need to use it.

Jimmy Turner MD

But there are ways to deal with this by setting up processes that you have available to you whether that’s insurance side or whether that’s the emergency fund and the line of credit side that help decrease this angst.

Justin Harvey CFP

think that what I have observed in this discussion with clients and I have another one who like in her mid 60s she was divorced later in life she’s and works in anesthesia and makes good money but basically has zero retirement like close to zero literal dollars and even still some indebtedness into her 60s and her outlook for her financial future is she’s gonna be pretty resource constrained and she came to me highly anxious basically saying like like I’m okay with it being bad but I just need you to tell me like what what is the path forward and I was I observed that the ambiguity for her was a much bigger problem than the actual resource constraint and I think in a lot of these cases when you haven’t thought it through when you don’t understand the objective realities the fear from the unknown is like way more terrible than she’s just she was saying like just tell me what I need to do and then I will have this burden lifted I know like well yeah I gotta work till 74 and that is crappy but at least I know what I need to do and then the path is laid out and I can walk the path if you’re not sure what the path looks like that is often a source of fear that can be rectified just from going through some of this planning work

Jimmy Turner MD

I shared with you before we hit record on this one, I didn’t realize it would play into this, but just kind of my journey with entrepreneurial stress and anxiety and a big reason why was because there were changes that happened in my business that I didn’t realize were coming, I didn’t foresee.

Jimmy Turner MD

They ended up drastically impacting how the business was doing to the point where I was essentially operating a business and paying everyone else except for me at one point. And so that created a massive amount of stress.

Jimmy Turner MD

You know, this last thing I thought about before going to sleep, first thing I thought about before when I woke up. And a lot of that came from the fact that I couldn’t solve the problem and I didn’t know how to get out of it and it just felt very ethereal and nebulous and ambiguous as you just described the ambiguity.

Jimmy Turner MD

Once I figured out what the plan was, it drastically reduced the stress that was being created by that situation. And so when I talk on the show about being objective and clarifying things and defining things and making them concrete so that it is less stressful, I just wanna call out that I’m the pot calling the kettle black, that is 100% me swimming in the same water as any of you that are listening to the show.

Jimmy Turner MD

That’s a very real reality for a lot of us. And yeah, so I just wanna mention that because I resonate for different reasons to the anesthesiologists that you’re describing at the end of their career.

Jimmy Turner MD

And it really was, it was a lack of plan and just like this feeling like anything could come and get me at any moment and that things were crashing down and I just didn’t really have a sense for how good or bad it really was.

Justin Harvey CFP

And I think we’re not describing, Jimmy, something that like some people deal with the anxiety around the unknown. And we’re, we’re talking about something that is common to humanity. Like if you don’t know what’s coming down the pike, it’s, it’s a normal reflex to feel anxiety and you and I are both business owners.

Justin Harvey CFP

And I think you probably are, you know, we share some like internal motivation and some, you know, if you tell me the mountain that I need to climb, then I’m like, okay, I like, let’s, let’s do this.

Justin Harvey CFP

Um, and you know, I think back to like launching my business APN wealth, but it’s now seven or eight years old and we’ve hit some like fun milestones in the last handful of years, but at the very beginning, uh, there is this like, oh my gosh, there’s so many ways this could go wrong, but once you break it down, okay, I need one client a month and I they’re going to pay this much in revenue, my costs are this in order to get one client,

Justin Harvey CFP

I need to have 10 conversations that turns into, you know, three introductory calls that turns into, and then, okay, in order to have 10 conversations, I need to reach out to 20 of my friends and have introductory disco, you know, then it’s like, okay, well, I gotta have, I gotta send out 20 emails a day to people in my network and they’re like, I could do that in order to build a life that I’m like really optimistic about and excited about and the challenge,

Justin Harvey CFP

like if that doesn’t motivate you, then you’re, you shouldn’t be a business owner, but often what you’ll find is that, well, I, I know the road now and I am like, I’m stoked. I love getting out of bed and doing that every morning.

Justin Harvey CFP

And it does require the foundation of work, but once the path has been articulated, it is surprise, even if the, even if it’s like a terrible, I mean, I’ll put it that an air quotes, like, even if it’s a hard road, often that is invigorating for people to at least know what the road is.

Jimmy Turner MD

The clarity is so important, and for anybody listening to the show and you’re in medicine, you’re like, I want to go start my own business. Just recognize that the path to become a physician is very linear.

Jimmy Turner MD

You get to put your blinders on, your horse, just doing your thing, going down the path. There’s a very well -defined path. This is what it takes to become a medical student and then a resident and then attending physician and then to become an apartmenter if you’re in private practice or a professor, if you’re in academics.

Jimmy Turner MD

It is very, very laid out for you. If you step into the world of entrepreneurship, there are no rules. There is no straight path forward. You can go 360 degrees in any direction that you so choose, which may sound incredibly liberating.

Jimmy Turner MD

But for those of us that are very productive and would much prefer to have a plan and just to climb that mountain, as you’re describing, Justin, it can be really, really stressful because there is no one solution.

Jimmy Turner MD

There’s this problem and you just got to solve for X. There are 50 problems and before you solve for X, you got to figure out which problem is the problem. For me, entrepreneurship has been great and wonderful and extremely stressful and terrifying at times.

Jimmy Turner MD

The entire human emotion, the spectrum of the gamut I have experienced in owning my own business, that said, I will also point out, not to turn this into a show about entrepreneurship, but a lot of people have this false idea.

Jimmy Turner MD

Particularly when you’re transitioning careers or businesses, that these people that created these amazing businesses, they just jumped in with both feet, fear abandoned, with reckless abandonment. They just jumped in and committed to this wonderful idea and it just became successful.

Jimmy Turner MD

Most people don’t do that and the benefit of being a physician who does step into entrepreneurship is that you are a physician. You have a very stable, secure income and so you’re able to dabble in things and figure out these problems without losing your very secure income.

Jimmy Turner MD

Whereas a lot of people that work outside of medicine, they may have to jump in with both feet or live in their parents’ garage for a year while they try to get this business off the ground, Apple style.

Jimmy Turner MD

Just recognize that it is stressful, it is scary, it is something to behold, but at the same time, you have a bridge that helps you take that leap that’s going to be very scary for you because it’s not linear.

Jimmy Turner MD

Just know that that’s there and you don’t have to just abandon everything because I think people have that misrepresentation and that prevents them from starting businesses.

Justin Harvey CFP

And I think too, you know, if you can identify a couple of those key variables, they’re going to create this successful enterprise for a physician considering entrepreneurship, understanding your own hardwiring and to the extent that medicine has selected for folks who like the linear path with a concrete outcome, you can to some extent, I don’t want to say artificially construct linearity, and I’ll make up a word there.

Justin Harvey CFP

But through the creation of the algorithm that is like going to push on the biggest, you know, in business, we have this idea of the one big thing, that’s capital O, capital B, capital T, what is the one big thing that if you did it, everything else would be rendered irrelevant, all the little questions like they would all work themselves out, if you did this thing and accomplished it, what is that thing?

Justin Harvey CFP

And if you have a business that you can create a set of actions that will reliably accomplish whatever that thing is. And to use a concrete example, like if you’re launching a financial planning and investment management business, well, if I was able to have a conversation every day with somebody who is really rich, and maybe wanted to do business with me, then everything like all the other problems,

Justin Harvey CFP

staffing, infrastructure, you know, manage, like all the operations, like, if you’re making money, if there’s revenue happening, then all those things are going to work themselves out. So if with whatever the venture is that you’re going to consider, how do you create activities around accomplishing that one purpose that will allow all the downstream questions to work themselves out, often you can be busy,

Justin Harvey CFP

we call this in our industry playing office, I’ll put that in air quotes, like you’re doing things, you’re like answering emails, and you’re like, there’s business activity happening, but you’re not pursuing the one big thing.

Justin Harvey CFP

And as a result, there’s this illusion of progress of productivity. But unless you’re pushing on the actual problem, in your business, you’re not actually progressing towards anything, you’re just wasting your time, and losing time and time is non renewable, as we have discussed.

Justin Harvey CFP

So understanding the challenges that you face with the desire for linearity and say, okay, here’s the thing I need to do, here’s the things I need to do in order to accomplish that thing. And we’ll let all the other stuff work itself out.

Justin Harvey CFP

That can be incredibly useful, I would say like above average of above average utility for physicians who are interested in pursuing this self employment journey.

Jimmy Turner MD

And there is a theme here, right? Be concrete, define your goals, be intentional. And once you do that, the answers will sort themselves out. So whether that means having an emergency fund, having a heat lock, right?

Jimmy Turner MD

Having the money market fund, having the 401k and knowing that you can tap into 50 grand of that. Knowing that and defining it, and then being intentional about what is the problem and is it really a problem?

Jimmy Turner MD

And if it is, go solve it. And if it’s not, stop worrying about it, right? And so that all comes with being intentional. And that is a common theme, not just in the show, not just about money, that’s a common theme for marriage and raising kids and entrepreneurship and professionally and every other area of your life.

Jimmy Turner MD

So get clear about your financial goals, know what the options are, know what the worst case scenario is, figure out how you would deal with it. Once you have that information, you might find that that stress, that anxiety will be alleviated.

Jimmy Turner MD

So as we tie things up, don’t forget, you can go to moneymeetsmedicine .com, snag a free copy of the physician philosopher’s guide to personal finance. We can help you get disability insurance, or if you’re looking for free virtual talks for your residents and fellows, email me at jimmy at moneymeetsmedicine .com.

Jimmy Turner MD

We can talk more about the topics we typically discuss when I give those talks for trainees, which I’m really looking forward to doing more of. Everybody, thanks for tuning in. Thanks for sharing the show with everybody.

Jimmy Turner MD

Justin and I will see you next week. Cheers. … … … Justin Harvey is a certified financial planner at APM Wealth where he helps anesthesiologists in pain medicine positions. Dr. Jimmy Turner is a practicing academic anesthesiologist at Wake Forest in North Carolina.

Jimmy Turner MD

He’s also a licensed insurance agent. However, either Justin or Jimmy are your financial planner, investment advisor, or insurance agent. This show is expressly for general education and entertainment purposes only.

Jimmy Turner MD

Nothing should be considered financial advice. All views expressed are solely the views of the guests on the show and do not represent the views or opinions of their employer.