Saving for Your Kids College Education

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Jimmy Turner, MD: which is better for doctors with 1099 income, a SEP IRA or a solo 401k keep listening. As we dive in, welcome to the money meets medicine podcast, where we talk all about the personal finance topics you issued, learn in medical school. I’m your host, Dr. Jimmy Turner, and here’s your co host whose first concert was Reliant K, Justin Harvey.

Justin Harvey, CFP: Jimmy, you asked me that question and I was just hearkening back to my, high school days those were fun times, you know, going to shows with your friends and doing a little crowd surfing and bouncing around. but man, it’s, makes me feel like an old man hearkening back.

Jimmy Turner, MD: I’m not gonna lie, your first concert, or one of your first concerts, because we couldn’t establish exactly which one the first concert was, but this was one of them. My first concert is infinitely more embarrassing. it was Duran Duran, and I went with my parents, and at Disney. i’m actually not gonna lie I actually kind of like duran duran.

so if you don’t like duran duran, then I guess we can’t be friends.

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Justin Harvey, CFP: don’t have an opinion.

Jimmy Turner, MD: we’re gonna have lots of [00:01:00] opinions on this show because We’re debating sep iras and solo 401ks the pros and cons before we dive into that we’re going to talk about 1099 income in general the difference between that and w2 and some things that are to consider because This is actually something I didn’t understand too well when I finished training and I’ve been a W 2 employee but have learned more about this and find it to be a fascinating subject even if you are a W 2 employee that doesn’t mean that this show is not going to apply to you because there are ways to earn 1099 income outside of your W 2 job we’re going to talk about that as well, before we dive in make sure to check out the Physician Philosopher’s Guide to Personal Finance.

It’s completely free on moneymeetsmedicine. com where we can also help you get an own occupation disability insurance policy Or a quote for that, and you can get it from a source you trust that’s going to do the right thing for you. we built that insurance program specifically to prevent what happened to me happening to you.

So, check out moneymeetsmedicine. com slash disability if you need an unoccupied disability insurance quote. Justin, I think that [00:02:00] when I graduated, I had this idea. I would just get my W 2 paycheck, and that would be it. Like, that was just going to be it. I was just going to get my W 2 paycheck as an employed physician.

And that’s where all of my income would come from. I actually learned things about my own W 2 income from 1099 work I ended up doing. for me, that’s online entrepreneurship, building businesses, doing financial literacy, helping doctors with own occupation, disability insurance.

But for other doctors, it’s expert witness work, malpractice work, chart reviews. It can be an online business too, or something completely different. You might make money in real estate. There are lots of ways to make money outside of medicine. And, of course, there are doctors that, just work in a 1099 model.

they get paid a 1099, as the physician doing medical work. this really can touch on a wide variety of people, I find that there’s some, like, really common misunderstandings. And maybe the first one I’ll give before we just kind of jump into this is, when somebody’s considering a W 2 opportunity or a 1099, sometimes [00:03:00] jobs will say, hey, we’re willing to offer you either.

And they don’t really know how to do the math because they don’t realize that as a W 2 employee, you’re just the employee paying just the employee side of taxes. And as a 1099, you’re the employee and the employer who’s contracting for that hospital or group or wherever you’re providing your medical work.

And therefore you’re paying taxes on your employee side still, but you’re also paying the employer side of FICA taxes. so they’ll look at these apples and oranges. numbers and be like, well, you know, I’m earning a little bit more in the 1099. I should take that one.

And I’m like, did you count, the 8 percent in taxes that you’re paying? You’re like, Oh no, I didn’t. Like, well, what are the numbers look like when you do that? And like, Oh, this 1099 incomes a lot lower. Yeah. You should probably think about that. They’re saving money off of you. So when you’re negotiating those opportunities, You need to understand that,

We can talk about it explain a little bit better, do you have lots of docs that make 1099 money, Justin, that you’re familiar with?

Justin Harvey, CFP: Yeah, I do. it’s a common, circumstance where there’s a lot of opportunity for financial planning value add. So whenever [00:04:00] I get one of those, I’m always like, all right, let’s see what we can do here. And there’s a lot of fun planning opportunities. those are many of my favorite clients to work with actually.

Jimmy Turner, MD: is that typically medical work or are these doctors?

Justin Harvey, CFP: And we could broaden it more to self employment income. So. 1099 is one tax form, which would report self employment income. But if you’re a business owner, it’s maybe a K one where you have, you’re running payroll for yourself and getting profits distributions and, or there’s other sort of permutations.

But when you are a business owner, which if you have 1099 income, you’re a business owner. there is a lot of planning potential there and retirement planning, solo 401k, SEP IRA, and others are an important part of that.

Jimmy Turner, MD: yeah. So we’re going to talk about the SEP IRA versus solo 1 4K in just a second, but I want to tell a funny story first, which is, again, on the tax side. I was probably three or four months into my attending job when I had somebody Asked me like hey, jimmy, did your did your paycheck [00:05:00] just go up by like a thousand dollars this month and I was like, well Now that I look at it, yeah, it did.

do you know why that happened? at the time I was like, no, I didn’t. So I asked one of the more senior people that are like, well, there’s this thing called the social security wage base. when you hit the social security wage base, they stop charging you, for social security. And that’s 6. 2%.

And so my paycheck went up by 6. 2 percent that month. I thought maybe I was just doing a really good job. it turns out that, there’s this thing called the social security wage base. at least at my job, that impacts not only my paycheck, but it also impacts the contributions and matching that my employer provides.

They have this, complicated situation where they match X up to the social security wage base and then they match Y and then they contribute Z. And so it’s, it’s a little bit convoluted to understand, particularly if you don’t know the social security wage base is a thing. The reason that I mention this is because 1099 income or income outside of medicine.

If you’re a W2 worker is actually really advantageous because the social security wage base, I believe is like [00:06:00] 170, 000, give or take. And so for 2024 after that, that’s 6. 2 percent employer side taxes, you know, they, those stay, but the employee side no longer, you don’t have to pay it anymore. And so if you’re earning money outside of that, you’re automatically saving in a way, 6.

2 percent on money you’re earning outside of your, your W2 gig, because you’ve already met that social security wage base. And so when we talk about taxes and paying the employer and employee side. you still have to pay the employer side if you’re, you know, making money and you own your own business, you know, you have self employed people.

income, as you put it, the employee side kind of goes away. And so for my situation, it’s great because I make W 2 income, but then I also make money outside the hospital and I’ve already maxed that bad boy out at my W 2 job. And so I’m probably viewing this the wrong way. I just, I owed a bunch of taxes is the way I should view this, but for me, it feels like a discount.

Justin Harvey, CFP: Yeah, I mean, the way I view it is, anytime you’re making money that you didn’t have before doing something that you don’t hate doing that’s generally accretive [00:07:00] to financial, progress. , and there, it gets very technical very quickly. And another thing, you know, as an, let me make two asides here, uh, cause it is pertinent to the topic at hand.

If you are working 1099, it does increase the complexity of your life and your taxes. it might bump you from, using TurboTax to, okay, it now makes sense for me to hire a CPA. So be prepared for that. And you’re going to. I’m going to pay a thousand dollars to have somebody who knows what they’re doing be responsive to you and prepare your taxes.

And that’s cost of doing business. You should probably just do that in my humble opinion. The second thing is, it’s helpful to understand a rule of thumb with that 1099 versus W2 comparison. You really do need to get into the accounting.

There tends to be somewhere between a 15 and a 25 percent differential. So if I’m going to make 400 grand W2, I need it to be. 460 to 500, 1099 in order to be roughly apples to apples. And then you want to understand, okay, how does this change benefits?

How does this change contributions to my health insurance plan? How does this [00:08:00] change 401k contributions that might be employer match? There’s a lot of details that can. Sort of push you one way or the other as to which is more advantageous. If the numbers are close, you want W2 because of that employer tax at minimum often there’s other requirements where the employer will be giving you these other benefits in terms of a healthcare retirement plan, et cetera.

Jimmy Turner, MD: Yeah. So if you’re considering a job and they’re offering both, make sure that you do the math because they are not the same. It’s apples and oranges, unless you do some calculations to make it apples to apples.

One of the reasons I want to talk about this specifically is because I get questions. And in fact, I’ve got a story about CPAs. The reason that I ended up switching from TurboTax to a proper accountant, is that I ended up doing my TurboTaxes. It was the first year I did a backdoor Roth IRA.

Which is related to this show and I had to teach the CPA I even I bought the extra service We’re like you get to talk to an accountant and I had to teach the [00:09:00] accountant how to fill out the form the 8606 for the backdoor Roth IRA it was Hilarious because not only did I have to teach them about it and tell them where the zeros and the six thousands went on This form and exactly how it was laid out, but she’s like, well, I don’t know how to actually do that and I’m like, I don’t understand you just write them down on the form she’s Like well, but you can’t do that on TurboTax You have to put it into specific spots in the software that then populates the form she couldn’t even do it And that for me, I was like, okay, I guess I need to graduate at this point.

I asked for a refund. and so that was my first interaction with that clearly not being good enough. And then I moved on to having K one partnerships and the whole nine yards. at this point it makes sense for me not to do that anymore, but that’s how I got into this.

Justin Harvey, CFP: I’ve had similar experiences with clients who want to pay for the cut rate that, you know, you talk to some of human in person, but it’s, you know, they have a little storefront. I got on the phone with them because they did the same thing.

They did a conversion. It was a non deductible contribution [00:10:00] that was converted. So it should have been zero tax impact. The person I was talking to on the phone, the tax preparer had never heard of a non deductible traditional IRA contribution. So they didn’t have a category of the brain to understand that.

This might be a non taxable event and, that’s why I say pay a thousand bucks, get someone who is a CPA who knows what they’re doing. They don’t universally know what they’re doing, but many of them do. And obviously you can get a referral, hopefully from another physician or your financial advisor to someone who knows what they’re doing.

Jimmy Turner, MD: Yeah. so related to this topic, backdoor Roth IRA, I was sitting down at lunch, with. somebody from a company that rhymes with Northwestern Futural and, as I was doing that, this person was talking to me about, a whole life insurance policy they were trying to sell me.

At the time the site was anonymous, so they didn’t know who I was. They didn’t know that I actually knew something about personal finance. I’m just like letting them go through their spiel. They’re writing down like this is A, this is B, this is C. A was clearly a mortgage, B was clearly a regular investment inside of a 401k, and C [00:11:00] was this amazing product called Whole Life Insurance that they wouldn’t tell me what the name was until the end because they had to, really pitch it out there.

And naturally I ended up telling him what those things were and why I wasn’t interested and asked a lot of questions about whole life insurance one of the funny comments that came out of that was, it was like, Oh yeah, you know a good amount about personal finance.

That’s really great. how do you know that? I’m like, well, I’ve got this business, where I teach doctors about personal finance and, I’m really trying to do what’s right for people just because I’ve had the experience in the financial industry that usually doesn’t happen.

they’re like, are you earning money like, you know, outside of outside of your medical job. And I was like, yeah, I am like, well, you should open up a sep IRA. And I was like, Well, you know, it’s funny that you mentioned that because I, I do a backdoor Roth IRA. And I’m pretty sure that if I have sep IRA money, that pretty much negates the, you know, what, what I’m doing, because the prorata calculation, and this guy’s just staring at me like I’m stupid.

and I was like, you do know that, right? And he’s like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. no, I didn’t know that. you were a quote unquote financial planner for doctors and Didn’t know that you couldn’t do a back to Roth area or the [00:12:00] prorata calculation would basically negate the benefit of it If you have SEP IRA money, the reason I mentioned that is to a make fun of that person, but B to, I don’t hold any punches with them, is B to mention that SEP IRAs and solo 401ks are, two options to consider if you have self employment income and one reason in this space, in the personal finance space, SEP IRAs don’t get a lot of love.

Is because people will say, Hey, if you have any other kind of IRA money, this is on form 6. When you do your IRA, forms for taxes, it basically says, do you have any rollover IRA money? Any traditional IRA money, any SEP IRA money, basically any other IRA money that’s not Roth IRA money. And that answer is supposed to be, no, I have 0 in these other kinds of IRA accounts, and then the prorated calculation doesn’t hit you.

, we don’t need to go into the weeds on what the prorata calculation is, but just suffice it to say you want that number to be zero. And so in the physician finance blogosphere, SEP IRAs are like, Nope, don’t do them because we all do backdoor Roth IRAs and therefore these are bad. And Justin, you and I were talking before we hit record about [00:13:00] how maybe that’s not true.

there might be some benefits to SEP IRAs over solo and 4k. So I’m really excited to hear. Your take on this after my very long winded story about, bad financial advisors. I would like to hear a good financial advisors perspective on this topic.

Justin Harvey, CFP: unfortunately, the term financial advisor is not a regulated term the way a medical doctor is. the conversation you had happens every day with residents and fellows across America going to steak dinners. And, uh, I don’t, I don’t know. Name names because I’m lawsuit averse. You said you’re very risk tolerant.

I am a little more gun shy with having been sued in the past

Jimmy Turner, MD: let me just put this caveat out there that this was Jimmy Turner saying those things. I also maybe didn’t mention the company exactly. I also may have gotten a message on Twitter Literally yesterday with a picture that somebody sent me of the talking points for whole life insurance that this company uses to, preach to people.

And so when you say that it happens every day, literally in the last 24 hours of recording this episode. I [00:14:00] had a follower on Twitter, reach out and say, Hey, Jimmy, you won’t believe what I just got pitched.

Justin Harvey, CFP: Yes, no exaggeration keep up the great work jimmy with this important educational platform nine times out of ten. I do prefer the solo. There are a couple things That I would want to understand about whether or not the solo would be appropriate. One of the reasons that I like the solo 401k is because it does not run afoul of the pro rata rule.

any assets you have that are traditional assets in any kind of ira a traditional ira a rollover IRA, a SEP IRA. These are assets that would, sort of make the backdoor Roth problematic. So you basically, can’t do the backdoor Roth if you have assets in any of those kinds of accounts. Often when I have clients that.

Want to do the backdoor Roth and have those assets. We’ll try to roll them into an existing employer plan. many 401ks or 403bs will say, yes, we’ll take your money, add it to our plan balance, invest it per the [00:15:00] investment options in the plan. In those cases, you can then accomplish the backdoor Roth.

That’s one way around having those traditional balances. A second way around it is to open and fund a solo 401k. Solo 401k is an employer plan for tax purposes. you’re the business owner, you’re also the employee, but it’s a business plan It is, going to be a suitable sort of receptacle into which you can put those traditional assets.

You open a new solo 401k, And you could roll it into your new solo K, which is something that we do not infrequently with clients. some of the things that you want to think about before you open a solo for one K are how long do I expect self employment income to persist? it’s best. Implemented when there’s a reasonable expectation that for the foreseeable future, I’m going to have self employment income. Whenever you don’t have persistent self employment income, you can then have an inactive 401k plan [00:16:00] that is regulated by the department of labor, and then you can have some plan compliance problems.

Now you probably didn’t even know that plan compliance is a thing you have to think about with the solo 401k. And a lot of the reasons where I say, Oh, that one or two times out of 10, the SEP is preferable relate to keeping things simple as it relates to the plan compliance. if your plan goes inactive, sometimes you have to shut it down.

That requires filing the 5, 500 with the department of labor. You got to pay someone to do that or do it yourself. And it’s not terrible. I’ve helped clients do it. And I have clients CPAs do it. in many cases, The company through whom we set up a four, a solo for one K, they actually filed the 5, 500 for us, but you’re going to need to do that.

And it’s, there’s some stuff there and there’s some costs there. So if you’re only doing this so you can do the backdoor Roth, I’ve heard the benefit of a backdoor Roth estimated to be very low. if the benefit is between 50 and 100 a year of after tax dollars, then it’s not unreasonable to think that if I only did a solo [00:17:00] 401k for one or two years, then I had to pay a CPA 500 to, Do my 5, 500 and then I shut it down.

There was no economic benefit to you doing that potentially. And so you want to make sure that the self employment income will persist. Um, secondly, uh, yeah, compliance, the paperwork that whenever you’re setting up a solo 401k, there’s different. options in terms of the complexity the, 401k is formed with what’s called a plan document.

So there’s a, a document that has a bunch of rules in it that stipulates here’s from a tax standpoint, all of the rules and regs for how this account is going to function. And it’s a very, You know, proper employer plan just has one person participating. Or if you’re married, you can include your spouse as well.

It’s not always apparent that when you’re opening a solo 401k, you’re opening an employer plan that has a plan document that governs how that plan is going to work. there are employee, loans hardship withdrawals and, other. Sort of a housekeeping types of rules and you got [00:18:00] to pay a company to create that plan document and there’s burden associated with that I’ve been involved in circumstances where There have been issues With the plan document the client didn’t even know there was one the rules were not clear and then we go to Roll that over later or had to file begin filing 5500 and we had to go back to the plan doc That was not written well for whatever reason.

And it created a problem, creates complexity, creates costs. We’ve got to talk to the CPA and the benefits people to help us untangle this knot. So it’s not as simple as a brokerage account. It’s not as simple as a traditional IRA and a SEP IRA is simpler to administer for this reason, because a SEP is just a less complicated vehicle.

there are some cases in which. the self employment income may not persist. Or the client doesn’t care about the backdoor Roth, or maybe they already have a traditional IRA and it’s already funded and they don’t have an employer plan [00:19:00] into which we could roll the traditional assets. does the solo make sense?

maybe the complexity isn’t warranted. So when in those one or two times out of 10 sometimes the SEP is just a cleaner option. To keep things simple for a client who doesn’t have an appetite for, and we, you know, we handle almost all the complexity and we have other trusted partners with whom we work to implement these things, but there are some people you can just tell, and Jimmy, you’re a physician.

you try to empathize with your patients. patients and understand how do I frame this in a way that’s going to be useful to them so they can Filter it through their risk paradigm and make an important medical decision I try to do the same thing I understand what is appropriate for clients based on what I know about them the facts of their circumstances plus their personality is this going to cause anxiety if Three months from now.

There’s some issue or I 5500 and their cpa doesn’t want to do it. And I’m like, okay The plan wasn’t set up with someone who’s automatically going to file the [00:20:00] 5500 and now they’re like getting all bent out of shape. I, I try to preempt those problems and one way to preempt that is to use the SEP.

Jimmy Turner, MD: Yeah. I think it’s fascinating that you’re saying this, as you’re describing this, if I were to invest any of my employer side, before I get to this, what I’m about to say is the TLDR here is that I would use this up IRA over solo 401k, just because of all the things you mentioned, but before I tell you why I would personally prefer a the benefit here.

It’s got, you got to be careful. So if you do have a 401k or a four or three B somewhere, I’ll say that you are a W2 employed physician and you have additional self employment income. I’m in this exact situation. My employee contribution to my four or three B is maxed out at wake forest where I work.

So if I took my self employment income outside of my hospital, I could not then contribute another 23, 000. As an employee [00:21:00] in that solo 401k or SEP IRA, that bucket has already been filled. You cannot fill it more than once. just like your employer, if you have W2 income, contributes to your 401k or your 403b, they do matching, they do contributions potentially.

In your solo 401k or SEP IRA, you are both the employee and the employer. And it’s from that employer side that you can then contribute more money. And I think it’s 25 percent of net earnings. There’s calculations out there to help you figure out what that is. you can take 20 to 25 percent of that money and put it into a SEP IRA or a solo 401k.

And that is a pre tax contribution, that allows you to reduce your tax burden, save more money in a pre tax fashion. Which is why a lot of accountants that are worth a lick of salt will mention this to you if you have self employment income. But you can’t fill up that employee side in two locations.

So I just want to mention that before I dive in. to your point, I personally would prefer SEP IRA. I don’t do a backdoor Roth IRA anymore. I prefer a taxable brokerage account for exactly the reasons you mentioned earlier. It’s just not worth the 50, 100, 200 a year in benefit over a taxable [00:22:00] brokerage account and the flexibility there it’s just easier for me to do dollar cost averaging in my brokerage account.

So I don’t do a backdoor Roth IRA anymore. I did that for the first three or four years. I was out of training. If you do it, great. That’s awesome. They’re wonderful. Nothing wrong with them. If you do one, you need to lean towards that solo 401k and the complexity associated with it if you have self employment income because of that maneuver.

But you just described me to a T, right? So if you have the complicated situation, maybe somebody has self employment income, they own a practice, they want individualized help. We’ve discussed on the show before that that is the person that you need to get a financial planner. If you need one, Justin’s great.

Highly recommend him. for the people on the other end of the spectrum, like me, I’m a do it yourself or at this point in my, in my stage, I’m going to hire Justin when I get closer to retirement. I need him to help me with tax efficiencies and withdrawing money. but for now I like simplicity in pretty much every aspect of my life.

a SEP IRA because of the simplicity and not having to worry about the 5, 500 and the plan document and all this other complexity that I personally don’t want to deal [00:23:00] with. I would do a SEP IRA. So I’m in that one or two out of 10 that you mentioned.

Justin Harvey, CFP: Let me show one other thing that I neglected to mention there are times at which There’s a compelling economic argument I gave you some qualitative rationale and it’s important to know those items, but every now and then the tax savings is a pronounced difference between these two. And this is, you know, you had your Northwestern mutual.

Jimmy Turner, MD: Northwestern Futural.

Justin Harvey, CFP: I have had equivalent experiences where I’m talking to a CPA who’s like, yeah, you should do a SEP IRA and actually,

there are some circumstances in which there’s a significant advantage to using a solo 401k. I actually had a client who was making 150, 000 of self employment income, they were advised to use a SEP IRA because many accountants, especially they’ve been around a while.

That’s maybe all that they’re familiar with. And a solo 401k is a little more novel. a solo. 401k in this instance, because of the ability to do an [00:24:00] employee contribution dollar for dollar on the first 23, 000, if you have 23, 000 of self employment income, and that’s all you have is self employment income.

You can contribute that whole amount into a solo 401k. We’re in a SEP IRA. If you make 23 grand, you can only contribute about 20 percent of that. Call it 5, 000. once you scale this up I’m using 150, 000 of self employment income with no separate employer plan.

The max contribution on a pre tax basis is 50, 000 of your income. This is an income tax reducing contribution in the current tax year versus 27, eight. So it’s an additional, was that 23, 000 of deductible contribution, which, multiplied by your marginal tax rate, estimate it to be. 40 percent we’re talking like a handful of thousands of dollars less.

You’re paying in taxes just because you picked a different account type. this is an example where I would say slam dunk 401k is actually, paying for itself.

Jimmy Turner, MD: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So just to pick up [00:25:00] what you’re putting down If you don’t have any W 2 income, you’re not employed anywhere else. You are only self employed. All of your income is self employed. In that situation, a solo 401k, Is, is beneficial. You said up to 150, 000 in that example, what, once you, once your income gets high enough, neither of them matter because you’re going to max it out regardless, but somewhere in that, let’s say 150, 000 to whatever that ends up being, you know, 600, 000 range, I’d have to do the, do the math to figure it out.

that solo 401k is going to potentially provide advantage

Justin Harvey, CFP: That’s absolutely right. I think the number is in the three hundreds, where the max contribution, employee plus employer on the 401k is equal to the max employer on the SAP. And they. Are both the four 15 limit, which in 2024, I think is 69, 000, in the 100, 000 range or 200, 000 range or less, there can be a pronounced benefit to doing the solo 401k if you’re trying to do the max contribution.

Jimmy Turner, MD: Hey, That’s something I definitely did not know

Justin Harvey, CFP: And so [00:26:00] that is the important caveat of you need to be able to max fund it. I actually, had a client last week, thinking about doing a solo K and it turns out they’re not going to be able to max fund.

if there’s not a compelling reason to do the solo K, often the SEP, especially if you’re not doing the backdoor anyway, can make sense because we’re only going to do that partial funding amount closer to that 20 percent of self employment income. I’m sure this is the same in medicine.

You don’t do something complicated when something simple will do. And a SEP IRA is a good, simple solution when compared to a solo K.

Jimmy Turner, MD: Yeah, I love it. If you have self employment income, solo 401k, SEP IRA, something you might want to consider and just remember that you are the employee and the employer when you have self employment income. I think that remembering that as a, useful tool is often helpful.

I’ll just mention this. I actually didn’t plan to mention this on the show before we close, but I use that not just for investment purposes and for understanding taxes. But as an entrepreneur, I use that as a way to think through my business too, because sometimes what makes [00:27:00] me happy as an individual, isn’t what’s best for my business.

And sometimes what’s best for my business doesn’t make me happy. And so as the employee of my business, sometimes I have to put my CEO employer hat on and think, and other times I have to say, you know, Hey, screw the CEO, I’m going to do what I want. Just to point out, there are multiple ways in which you are the employer and the employee if you have self employment income, and it’s important to wear both those hats and make decisions from both locations. Alright everybody, thanks for tuning in as always and sharing Money Meets Medicine with your friends and colleagues inside of the hospital or clinic where you work. As we head out, don’t forget to go to moneymeetsmedicine. com slash disability to get your own occupation disability insurance quotes from a source that you can actually trust or to download the Physician Philosopher’s Guide to Personal Finance which is free to download at moneymeetsmedicine.

Alright everybody, we will see you next week. Cheers.